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Logan: When did you first become what
you would consider a skeptic? Was there a defining
moment or did your general philosophy evolve with
time?
Michael Shermer: No particular defining
moment, but an evolution over time of my critical
thinking skills, honed by scientific training,
applied to more and more topics. With the paranormal,
for example, in the 1970s when I was in a graduate
program in experimental psychology, I thought
that there might be something to ESP, telepathy,
and such, because there was a paranormal lab at
UCLA run by Thelma Moss, psychics were being tested
at labs around the country by Ph.D. psychologists,
and Uri Geller was all the rage and had been declared
the real deal by some scientists, so I figured
there might be something to it since these guys
were smarter than me.
Well, then I saw James "The Amazing" Randi on
television duplicating everything these psychics
could do, but he was doing it with magic tricks,
and made the point that scientists are not trained
to detect intentional deception on the part of
their subjects, and that's when I realized that
science is not a perfect system and that scientists
can be duped as easily as anyone else.
Logan: Were you always interested in writing?
Michael Shermer: I wanted to be a writer
since I was an undergraduate in college, but I
was a terrible writer. I was so bad, in fact,
that for a psychology course I was taking, the
professor had all of us students write two short
essays, one well-written and one intentionally
poorly written, so that he could attach pictures
of attractive or unattractive faces to them to
measure the subjective ratings of the essays by
subjects, with the idea that attractive people
essays would be ranked higher, even if they were
poorly written. Well, it turns out that my "well-written"
essay got picked by the professor to be one of
the intentionally poorly written essays!
Essentially I overcame my lack of training in
writing in high school and college by doing what
all good writers do: I read the books of good
writers, and I wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote.
I wrote every chance I had. I practiced the "10,000
hour" rule: if you want to get good at something
you need to invest about 10,000 hours at it. By
the time I wrote Why People Believe Weird Things
(my bestselling book) in 1997, I had already written
tons of material, so although it was technically
my first science book, I was hardly a rookie writer.
Also, I don't have writer's block. I don't believe
in it. I'm a professional, and professionals in
other fields don't get blocked. Can you imagine
calling a plumber to come to your home to fix
your pipes, and he shows up and says "Sorry, I
can't fix your pipes, I have Plumber's Block."
Or you take your taxes to your accountant, and
he says, "Sorry, I can't do your taxes, I have
H & R Block"....
Logan: Did you have an idea on what you
would be writing, or did you just tend to write
what interested you at the time? You've published
books on cycling, and of course were once a student
of theology...
Michael Shermer: I always wanted to write
science books. Science is my passion. What I have
been building up to in my series of books is applying
science and skepticism to more and more fields.
In Why People Believe Weird Things I tackled
science and pseudoscience and the nature of belief
systems. In How We Believe I explained
why people believe in God. In The Science of
Good and Evil I explained why we are moral,
that is, the evolutionary origins of morality.
My next book, tentatively titled Evonomics,
is on evolutionary economics, in which I aim to
explain the evolutionary origins of trade and
commerce and markets and, ultimately, economies,
and the evolved psychology of how people behave
so irrationally in modern markets. The book after
that will deal with Darwinian politics. So as
you can see, I'm broadening the scope of my interests.
Logan: What do you think made you want
to share your passion in science, versus being
someone who just reads and enjoys skeptical and
scientific works?
Michael Shermer: I am, first and foremost,
a writer and teacher, and that's what we do: share
our passion for our subject, which in my case
is science. Of course, I am a voracious reader,
but that is also part of my research as well as
continuing to improve my skills as a writer (good
writers read good writers for inspiration and
edification). Also, I would like to make the world
a better place, and in order to do that I need
to reach as many people as possible. As a college
professor I could only reach so many people: a
couple of dozen to a couple of hundreds students
in any given semester. But as a writer and public
intellectual making appearances on television,
radio, newspapers, magazines, etc., I can reach
millions of people with the same message. More
people reached means more chances for changing
the world.
Logan: How did you go about beginning
the Skeptics Society and magazine? I assume these
were early outlets to the goal of teaching a wider
audience?
Michael Shermer: The society and magazine
were nothing more than a side hobby to start,
just something fun to do on the side while I was
teaching full time and pursuing a career as an
academic. There was no plan to make this a career,
but eventually it got big enough that I had the
opportunity to leave the comforting womb of the
ivory tower and go into the real world to make
a difference. This was the best thing I could
have done because academics live in a very isolated
and protected world. Most of them haven't a clue
what it is like to live and work in the real world.
A typical academic career involves K-12 education,
then four years of undergraduate college, then
4-6 years of a Ph.D. program, after which they
get a job at a university, where they spend the
rest of their lives. Most only see what other
people do, and the risks they take and the insecurities
they live with, on television and in books. Most
academics have no idea what it actually feels
like to be unprotected in the motherly womb of
academia. If I were king, before I deposed myself
I would require all academics to work in the real
world for a minimum of 5-10 years before being
allowed to pursue a tenure-track position. Oh,
I would also abolish tenure, the worst idea ever
invented.
Logan: Was your writing actually making
you enough money when you quit, or was it just
a matter of having to dedicate yourself to one
or the other, and not both?
Michael Shermer: My first book, Why
People Believe Weird Things, did very well
in terms of sales and so brought me in a much
bigger advance on my next book, How We Believe,
which helped me make the financial bridge from
depending on my teaching salary to depending on
my salary from the Skeptics Society. It all happened
gradually over many years.
Logan: A lot of big names were contributing
even at issue one. How did you get writers and
articles for the magazine to begin?
Michael Shermer: Because I had a lifelong
interest in science, and because I tend to be
a friendly and gregarious fellow, I always made
it a point to meet the most interesting and important
scientists and scholars whenever I encountered
them at talks and conferences, and I befriended
many of them. I did this because I enjoy it, not
with some future purpose of networking, but that
was the long term effect, so that when it came
time to put together a board of advisors, I could
call on them and they responded positively, not
just because they were my friends, but also because
they could see that there was a need for what
we were proposing doing with the Skeptics Society
and Skeptic magazine, in terms of combating
pseudoscience and superstition.
Logan: How did those early issues do?
Michael Shermer: Early issues sold quite
well, in the range of 70 percent sell through,
which in the magazine business is quite good,
but that was for bookstores only. Newsstand sales
were dismal, as you might expect since we are
not exactly People magazine to appeal to
general audiences with pictures of sexy celebrities
who forget to wear underwear. Still, for such
an intellectual magazine, we have done well, and
our sales have steadily climbed throughout the
years where we now print about 50,000 copies of
each issue.
Logan: On a lot of online reviews of your
work, specifically Why People Believe Weird
Things, you'll find people agreeing with a
portion of your work, but attacking the specific
thing they believe in. Do you applaud them for
questioning at least some of what is out there,
or do you think they are missing the overall point?
Michael Shermer: Virtually everyone who
writes says something like "I too am a skeptic
and agree with you on everything but..." followed
by the particular belief that the reader holds
dear. That's okay, I could certainly be wrong
on a number of things given how many different
things we investigate, but I do aim for an overall
message of not telling people what to think about
this or that particular claim, but how to think
about any claim from a scientific perspective.
In that sense, it doesn't make any difference
what I think; it matters how rigorous the claim
is by the exacting standards of science.
Logan: Is writing a bit more difficult
when you know there will be people checking every
bit of punctuation, or trying to catch you slip
up? Some of the articles regarding the recent
Grand Canyon article error almost seemed to be
"See, we told you they couldn't be trusted..."
Or should this just be the standard all writers
keep to?
Michael Shermer: No, I've always been
very careful about documenting my research. Mistakes
always slip through, but I'm fairly rigorous.
And, yes, this should be the standard all writers
keep to, but many slip over the years, especially
as they get more famous and productive and overcommitted,
and they rush things through, don't properly fact
check, forget which items are notes in their own
words or someone else's words, and that can lead
to accusation of plaigarism, which is what I suspect
happened with Stephen Ambrose and Doris Kearns
Godwin.
Logan: Do you see Skepticism gaining ground
at all? You mentioned increased sales of your
magazine, and recent books by yourself and others
like Richard Dawkins have done quite well - but
at the same time, religious titles are being sold
at stores by the millions.
Michael Shermer: Here I am reminded of
Henny Youngman's reply to the question,: "How's
your wife?": "Compared to what?" In the historian's
perspective, things are much better. So here I
will end with a slightly more formal answer, one
that I composed for the Edge.org web page on this
year's question about what we are optimistic about:
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A 2001 Gallup poll
found that 45 percent of Americans
agree with the statement “God created
human beings pretty much in their
present form at one time within
the last 10,000 years or so.” A
2005 Pew Research Center poll found
similarly distressing results: 42
percent of Americans believe that
“living things have existed in their
present form since the beginning
of time.”
Scientists are understandably
pessimistic about what such findings
say about the future of science
and education, and the situation
is even worse when we examine other
superstitions, such as these percentages
of belief published in a 2002 National
Science Foundation study:
ESP 60%
UFOs 30%
Astrology 40%
Lucky numbers 32%
Magnetic therapy 70%
Alternative medicine 88%
As the publisher
of Skeptic magazine I am
routinely asked if I am optimistic
or pessimistic about the state of
superstition and magical thinking
today. The question reminds me of
when the comedian Henny Youngman
was asked, “How’s your wife?” He
would reply, “Compared to what?”
Out of context,
such belief percentages in the teeth
of so much contradictory scientific
evidence could easily make one pessimistic.
But because I am a historian of
science I take the long view, and
compared to what people believed
before the Scientific Revolution,
there is much cause for optimism.
Consider what life
was like and what people believed
a mere four centuries ago, just
as science began lighting candles
in the dark. In 16th- and 17th-century
England, for example, populations
were sparse, with 80 percent living
in the countryside, and the bulk
of those engaged in the production
of food. Cottage industries were
the only ones around in this pre-industrial
highly stratified society, in which
one-third to one-half of everyone
lived at subsistence level and were
chronically under-employed, not
to mention undernourished. Food
supplies were unpredictable and
plagues decimated weakened populations.
In the century spanning 1563 to
1665, there were six epidemics that
swept through London, each of which
annihilated between a tenth and
a sixth of the population. The figures
are almost unimaginable by today’s
standards: 20,000 in 1563, 15,000
in 1593, 36,000 in 1603, 41,000
in 1625, 10,000 in 1636, 68,000
in 1665. Childhood diseases were
unforgiving, with 60 percent of
children dead before the age of
17. As one observer noted in 1635,
“We shall find more who have died
within thirty or thirty-five years
of age than passed it.”
The 17th century
political philosopher Thomas Hobbes
was wrong in his assessment of man
in a state of nature before civilization
(people lived longer and healthier
lives before the Agricultural Revolution),
but his description of life was
apropos for his own time: “continual
fear and danger of violent death;
and the life of man, solitary, poor,
nasty, brutish, and short.”
Since magical thinking
is positively correlated with uncertainty
and unpredictability, we should
not be surprised at the levels of
superstition given the grim vagaries
of pre-modern life. There were no
banks for personal savings, insurance
companies for risk management, or
any of the other security measures
we take for granted today. With
houses constructed of thatched roofs
and wooden chimneys in a night lit
only by candles, fires routinely
devastated entire neighborhoods.
As one chronicler noted: “He which
at one o’clock was worth five thousand
pounds and, as the prophet saith,
drank his wine in bowls of fine
silver plate, had not by two o’clock
so much as a wooden dish left to
eat his meat in, nor a house to
cover his sorrowful head.”
Just as alcohol
and tobacco were essential anaesthetics
for the easing of pain and discomfort,
superstition and magic were the
basis for the mitigation of misfortune.
With an illiteracy rate approaching
90 percent, it is no wonder that
almost everyone believed in sorcery,
werewolves, hobgoblins, witchcraft,
astrology, black magic, demons,
prayer, and providence. “A great
many of us, when we be in trouble,
or sickness, or lose anything, we
run hither and thither to witches,
or sorcerers, whom we call wise
men…seeking aid and comfort at their
hands,” confessed Bishop Latimer
in 1552.
Saints were worshiped.
Liturgical books provided rituals
for blessing cattle, crops, houses,
tools, ships, wells, and kilns,
not to mention the sick, sterile
animals, and infertile couples.
In his 1621 book, Anatomy of
Melancholy, Robert Burton noted,
“Sorcerers are too common; cunning
men, wizards, and white witches,
as they call them, in every village,
which, if they be sought unto, will
help almost all infirmities of body
and mind.” Figure 1 below, from
Tobias Schutz’s 1654 Harmonica Macrocosmi
Cum Microcosmi, well illustrates
the magical links between the microcosm
and macrocosm.
Was everyone in
the pre-modern world so superstitious?
They were. As the great Oxford historian
of the period, Keith Thomas, writes
in his classic 1971 work Religion
and the Decline of Magic (from
whence many of these examples and
figures come), “No one denied the
influence of the heavens upon the
weather or disputed the relevance
of astrology to medicine or agriculture.
Before the seventeenth century,
total skepticism about astrological
doctrine was highly exceptional,
whether in England or elsewhere.”
And it wasn’t just astrology. “Religion,
astrology and magic all purported
to help men with their daily problems
by teaching them how to avoid misfortune
and how to account for it when it
struck.” With such sweeping power
over people, Thomas concludes, “If
magic is to be defined as the employment
of ineffective techniques to allay
anxiety when effectives ones are
not available, then we must recognize
that no society will ever be free
from it.” The superstitious we will
always have with us.
Nevertheless, the
rise of science ineluctably attenuated
this near universality of magical
thinking by proffering natural explanations
where before there were only supernatural
ones. Before Darwin, design theory
(in the form of William Paley’s
natural theology, which gave us
the “watchmaker” argument) was the
only game in town, so everyone believed
that life was designed by God. Today
less than half believe that in America,
and in most other parts of the world
virtually everyone accepts evolution
without qualification. That’s progress.
The decline of magic
was not due solely to the rise of
science, nor was it a linear descent.
For example, and paradoxically,
the new emphasis on empiricism led
to a struggle to find evidence for
superstitious beliefs that previously
needed no propping up with facts.
Consider the following comment from
the early 17th century, from a book
entitled The Trial of Mr. Darrell,
that shows how even then savvy observers
grasped the full implications of
denying the supernatural altogether:
Atheists abound
in these days and witchcraft is
called into question. Which error
is confirmed by denying dispossession
and both these errors confirm atheists
mightily…. If neither possession
nor witchcraft (contrary to what
has been so long generally and confidently
affirmed), why should we think that
there are devils? If no devils,
no God.
This attempt to
naturalize the supernatural, however,
was ultimately unsuccessful. Yet
the propensity to portend the future
through magic led to more formalized
methods of ascertaining causality
by connecting events in nature—the
very basis of science. As science
grew in importance, the analysis
of portents was often done meticulously
and quantitatively, albeit for purposes
both natural and supernatural. As
one diarist privately opined on
the nature and meaning of comets:
“I am not ignorant that such meteors
proceed from natural causes, yet
are frequently also the presages
of imminent calamities.”
Natural theology
was wedded to natural philosophy.
Science arose out of magic, which
it ultimately displaced. By the
18th century, astronomy replaced
astrology, chemistry succeeded alchemy,
probability theory displaced luck
and fortune, insurance attenuated
anxiety, banks replaced mattresses
as the repository of people’s savings,
city planning reduced the risks
from fires, social hygiene and the
germ theory dislodged disease, and
the vagaries of life became less
vague. As Francis Bacon concluded
in his 1626 work, New Atlantis:
“The end of our foundation is the
knowledge of causes and the secret
motions of things and the enlarging
of the bounds of human empire, to
the effecting of all things possible.”
Sic itur ad astra—Thus
do we reach the stars.
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